Listen now on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.

Brought to you by:

• Sinch—Build messaging, email, and calling into your product
• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security
• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster

—

Elena Verna is one of Silicon Valley’s most sought-after growth advisors and operators. She previously led growth at companies like Amplitude, Miro, Dropbox, and SurveyMonkey and is currently doing full-time advising for high-growth tech companies. In our conversation, Elena and I discuss:

• 10 growth tactics that never work

• Her 3 favorite growth frameworks

• How to increase your career optionality

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/10-growth-tactics-that-never-work-elena-verna

Some takeaways:

1. Don’t hire a head of growth too early. Wait until you have:

   1. Strong product-market fit

   2. At least $1 million in ARR

   3. Enough user data to run meaningful experiments

   4. Self-serve revenue (for product-led companies)

2. A growth team cannot fix a declining business. If your core metrics are dropping, focus on addressing fundamental product and marketing issues first. Growth teams can amplify success but cannot reverse declining product-market fit or competition eating your lunch.

3. A redesign may feel like a fresh start, but if you’re expecting it to solve your growth issues, think again. It’s a long-term play, and you’ll likely see a dip before you see any improvement. Understand that rebrands are a necessary step for the future but won’t immediately improve acquisition. If you go through with it, be prepared to spend months optimizing after launch to get back to where you were—or better.

4. Copying competitors rarely works because:

   1. You don’t know if what you’re seeing is their actual experience

   2. Their tactics are specific to their customers and channels

   3. You miss the context and learning that led to their current solution

Instead, use competitor analysis for inspiration and patterns, but do your own research and testing.

5. Your problems aren’t unique. Before trying to solve something from scratch:

   1. Research how others have solved similar challenges

   2. Talk to people who’ve faced the same issues

   3. Look for existing patterns and frameworks

   4. Hire advisors to accelerate learning

6. Instead of focusing too much on SEO, SEM, or paid social channels (where you’re essentially paying for access to someone else’s audience), prioritize building owned and earned channels—like virality, word of mouth, and user-generated content. These are channels that your competitors can’t replicate, and they can provide a more sustainable growth engine in the long run.

7. Don’t get paralyzed by testing everything. If you can’t get statistical significance within a month, use pre/post analysis instead. Trust intuition more, especially when:

   1. You have low traffic/conversion volumes

   2. The change is low-risk

   3. You need to move quickly

   4. The impact is obvious

8. Don’t try to figure everything out on your own. Hire advisors who’ve been there before and can offer insights you wouldn’t get otherwise. Test advisors before committing—do a workshop to see how they add value before making a long-term hire. And always be evaluating if they’re still contributing.

9. Stop wasting time on tactics that rarely move the needle, like:

   1. Button-color optimization

   2. Single one-off emails

   3. Adding more auth providers

   4. Blindly “simplifying” flows without solving specific user problems

10. Evolve your growth model every 18 months:

    1. Layer new channels on existing ones

    2. Expect diminishing returns from current tactics

    3. Spend 20% to 25% of resources exploring new growth loops

    4. Plan for 6 to 18 months before new channels show meaningful results

Where to find Elena Verna:

• Newsletter: https://elenaverna.substack.com/

• X: https://x.com/elenaverna

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elenaverna

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Welcome back, Elena!

(06:02) Common mistakes growth teams make

(08:31) #1: Hiring for growth roles too soon

(15:09) #2: Hiring a head of growth to fix your problems

(19:20) #3: Doing a rebrand to drive growth

(25:11) #4: Obsessing over your competition

(34:00) #5: Believing that your problems are unique

(42:32) #6: Prioritizing other growth channels above earned channels

(50:55) #7: Failing to evolve your growth model

(01:01:06) #8: Not hiring advisors

(01:05:55) #9: Over experimenting

(01:10:44) #10: Color optimizations, third-party signups, one email wonders, and removing friction

(01:15:00) Elena’s favorite growth frameworks

(01:18:50) Contrarian corner: full-time jobs

(01:26:05) Lightning round and final thoughts

Referenced:

• Elena Verna on how B2B growth is changing, product-led growth, product-led sales, why you should go freemium not trial, what features to make free, and much more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/elena-verna-on-why-every-company

• The ultimate guide to product-led sales | Elena Verna: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-led

• Six rules of hiring for growth: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/hiring-growth

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Miro: https://www.figma.com/

• Notion: https://www.figma.com/

• Carol Wong on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carol-wong-14133927/

• Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/

• The Law of Shitty Clickthroughs: https://andrewchen.com/the-law-of-shitty-clickthroughs/

• Miroverse: https://miro.com/miroverse/

• GitHub: https://github.com/

• My 9 Favorite Growth Frameworks: https://www.elenaverna.com/p/my-9-favorite-growth-frameworks

• Growth Loops are the New Funnels: https://www.reforge.com/blog/growth-loops

• Racecar Growth Framework: https://www.reforge.com/blog/racecar-growth-framework

• The Adjacent User: https://andrewchen.com/the-adjacent-user-theory/

• Unorthodox frameworks for growing your product, career, and impact | Bangaly Kaba (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Instacart): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/frameworks-for-growing-your-career-bangaly-kaba

• Why I’m Unquitting Full-Time Roles: https://www.elenaverna.com/p/why-im-unquitting-full-time-roles

• Noah Smith’s newsletter: https://www.noahpinion.blog/

• Beef on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81447461

• Veep on Max: https://www.max.com/shows/veep/37cb4217-c710-4166-8e9f-352a61f2cd3a

• The Last of Us on Max: https://www.max.com/shows/last-of-us/93ba22b1-833e-47ba-ae94-8ee7b9eefa9a

• Heated boots: https://www.amazon.com/heated-boots/s?k=heated+boots

• Airpods Max: https://www.apple.com/airpods-max/

• Memes by Elena: https://www.elenaverna.com/p/ten-funniest-growth-memes

Recommended books:

• Project Hail Mary: https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135229/

• The Martian: https://www.amazon.com/Martian-Andy-Weir/dp/0553418025

• We Are Legion (Bobiverse #1): https://www.amazon.com/We-Are-Legion-Bob-Bobiverse/dp/1680680587

• Fire Upon the Deep: https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Upon-Deep-Zones-Thought/dp/0812515285

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.