Caitlin Kalinowski is the former head of robotics and consumer hardware at OpenAI, helped design the MacBook Pro and MacBook Air at Apple, and led the AR and VR hardware teams at Meta. She’s designed and engineered some of the hardest and most beloved consumer hardware products in history and is now focused on the next frontier: robotics.

In our in-depth conversation, we discuss:

1. VR—what happened?

2. The coming memory price shock and why she’s telling startups to pre-buy now

3. How the technologies built for VR became the foundation of modern warfare

4. Why humanoid robots are still just prototypes, and what’s actually gating mass deployment

5. Lessons from Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sam Altman

6. Why she left OpenAI

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Where to find Caitlin Kalinowski:

• X: https://x.com/kalinowski007

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ckalinowski

• Website: https://www.caitlinkalinowski.com

Referenced:

• MacBook: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac

• Brett Degner on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-degner-a723594

• Apple Vision Pro: https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro

• Orion glasses: https://www.meta.com/emerging-tech/orion

• Marc Andreessen: The real AI boom hasn’t even started yet: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/marc-andreessen-the-real-ai-boom

• Palmer Luckey on X: https://x.com/PalmerLuckey

• Anduril: https://www.anduril.com

• OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai

• Moltbook: https://www.moltbook.com

• Nat Friedman on X: https://x.com/natfriedman

• Shelly Goldberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelly-goldberg-9b3b621

• Kate Bergeron on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katebergeron

• Matic: https://maticrobots.com

• Mehul Nariyawala on X: https://x.com/mehul

• Tesla: https://www.tesla.com

• Starlink: https://starlink.com

• The Godmother of AI on jobs, robots, and why world models are next | Dr. Fei-Fei Li: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-godmother-of-ai

• Why experts writing AI evals is creating the fastest-growing companies in history | Brendan Foody (CEO of Mercor): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/experts-writing-ai-evals-brendan-foody

• The 100-person AI lab that became Anthropic and Google’s secret weapon | Edwin Chen (Surge AI): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/surge-ai-edwin-chen

• Inside the expert network training every frontier AI model | Garrett Lord (Handshake CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-handshake-garrett-lord

• Yelena Rachitsky on X: https://x.com/yelenart

• Leila Takayama on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leilatakayama

• Pixar: https://www.pixar.com

• Disney: https://www.disney.com

• Caitlin’s post on leaving OpenAI: https://x.com/kalinowski007/status/2030320074121478618

• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama

• Jony Ive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive

• Mark Zuckerberg on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/zuck

• Making Meta | Andrew ‘Boz’ Bosworth (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto

• Quest 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_2

• Euphoria on HBO Max: https://www.hbomax.com/shows/euphoria/4ffd33c9-e0d6-4cd6-bd13-34c266c79be0

• Vollebak: https://vollebak.com

• Tim Urban’s post on X: https://x.com/waitbutwhy/status/1367871165319049221

• Old Testament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament

Recommended books:

• Shadow & Claw (The Book of the New Sun, 1): https://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Claw-First-Half-Book/dp/1250781256

• Mrs. Dalloway: https://www.amazon.com/Mrs-Dalloway-VIRGINIA-WOOLF/dp/8175994215

• The Histories: https://www.amazon.com/Histories-Herodotus/dp/0140449086

• The Epic of Gilgamesh: https://www.amazon.com/Epic-Gilgamesh/dp/014044100X

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

My biggest takeaways from this conversation:...