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Nan Yu is the head of product at Linear, one of the most beloved and fastest-growing B2B SaaS products out there today, and the gold standard for high-performing tech teams. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why speed and quality aren’t actually at odds

• Linear’s unique approach to product development

• Nan’s systematic approach to creativity

• Linear’s philosophy on deadlines

• The “double triangle” framework for product management

• Nan’s approach to landing his dream product roles

• Much more

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/linears-secret-to-building-beloved-b2b-products-nan-yu

Some takeaways:

1. Speed and quality aren’t actually at odds—they’re often positively correlated. The best practitioners in any field, from chefs to programmers, work quickly because they’re experts. The speed doesn’t come from rushing or cutting corners but from competence. Skilled teams that have mastered their craft move faster because they know what works and can quickly iterate, making decisions and improving the product in real time.

2. To prevent software bloat, Linear has a strict policy against customization features requested by middle managers that would make IC workflows worse. Instead:

   1. Focus on solving core problems extremely well

   2. Only build native features that deliver high-quality experiences

   3. Push back on customization requests that add complexity

   4. Help customers understand why limiting customization benefits them

3. One of the best ways to break out of a product or feature rut is to ask yourself, “What’s the most extreme version of this idea?” For example, instead of trying to figure out a perfect draft-saving feature, ask, “What’s the fastest version we could do? What’s the safest?” This approach helps you explore different extremes and forces you to break out of the usual boundaries. Build both extremes, test them internally, and then converge toward a balanced solution that works.

4. When implementing software, you’re not just solving a problem—you’re buying into a new way of working. Whether it’s an ERP system or a product tool, you’re adopting a set of best practices and ways of thinking. When choosing tools for your team, make sure they align with the practices you want to cultivate, and be ready to adjust how your team works to fit those processes.

5. When interviewing for PM roles:

   1. Treat it like a product discovery exercise

   2. Understand the hiring manager’s key problems and OKRs

   3. Ask specific questions as if you already work there

   4. Make yourself the clear solution to their problem

   5. Connect with other stakeholders to gather context

6. Take deadlines extremely seriously, but use them sparingly:

   1. When you commit to a deadline, make it the absolute priority

   2. Cut scope aggressively to ensure you can ship something

   3. Start fast and iterate early to give optionality

   4. Recognize that marketing moments are limited and precious

   5. Don’t waste time on detailed estimates—focus on shipping

Where to find Nan Yu:

• X: https://x.com/thenanyu

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thenanyu/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Nan Yu and Linear

(04:54) Survey insights: Linear vs. Jira

(07:51) The speed vs. quality myth

(09:24) Building and iterating quickly

(15:31) Avoiding bloat in enterprise software

(23:57) Understanding user needs deeply

(30:09) How to approach customer calls

(34:10) Creating strong emotional hooks

(40:31) Managing the product backlog

(44:46) Systemizing creativity

(48:16) Demo: Saving drafts in Linear

(51:38) Breaking constraints and building at extremes

(54:15) Adopting new tools

(58:22) The “double triangle” framework for product management

(01:04:23) Effective job-hunting strategies for PMs

(01:09:15) Thoughts on deadlines

(01:14:15) Lightning round

Referenced:

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Linear: https://linear.app/

• Patrick Collison’s post on X: https://x.com/patrickc/status/1869422495985750459

• Magnus Carlsen on X: https://x.com/magnuscarlsen

• Hikaru Nakamura on X: https://x.com/gmhikaru

• Geoffrey Moore on finding your beachhead, crossing the chasm, and dominating a market: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead

• Customer Request feature on Linear: https://linear.app/customer-requests

• Everlane: https://www.everlane.com/

• Schlep Blindness: https://paulgraham.com/schlep.html

• Linear’s triage tool: https://linear.app/docs/triage

• Patrick Collison’s post about mental models on X: https://x.com/patrickc/status/1443215022029619200

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Unpacking Amazon’s unique ways of working | Bill Carr (author of Working Backwards): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unpacking-amazons-unique-ways-of

• Mode: https://mode.com/

• The Diplomat on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288983

• Sakura Micron pens: https://www.amazon.com/SAKURA-PIGMA-MICRON-ESSENTIAL-COLORS/dp/B07VJFXT3C/

Recommended books:

• Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986

• The Design of Everyday Things: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654/

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.